Tag: Salidar

Lord of Chaos Read Along Part III

JordanLordOfChaosBannerOnce again the WoT Quad convenes to dice and slice apart Robert Jordan’s work. Makes his series sound like a tasty meal, doesn’t that? Well, it is a meal, for your brain. Don’t forget to visit my cohorts: Eivind in the comments below, Musings on Fantasia, and Coffee, Cookies, & Chili Peppers.

This week we covered Chapters 7-11; spoilers infest the 7 course meal below!

1) Elayne & Nynaeve are teaching Siuan, Leane, and some of the Salidar Aes Sedai about Tel’aran’rhiod. What did you make of first Gera the Cook and then Elaida popping into Tel’aran’rhiod? Do you think Elaida’s pronouncement was Foretelling or merely her dreaming?

Well, I think Gera was merely dreaming, and I liked that she was dreaming a minor fantasy – weighing half of what she does in real life. Then I was amused by the some of the Aes Sedai playing around, changing their clothes and looks. Elaida is just scary whether she is dreaming or not. I think I would have needed a few minutes to catch my breath after he little appearance and proclamation.

I know some of the Aes Sedai worry that her words are a Foreshadowing, but many things would have to happen in order for he to unit the Aes Sedai under her. The Salidar Aes Sedai would have to be captured/wiped out or return to the Tower for one. Elaida would have to survive in power long enough to see either scenario come about. Still, we have 6 or 7 books left in the series and strange and horrible things do happen as the Final Battle draws closer.

2) While in Tel’aran’rhiod. Leane decides to go check her network, and Sheriam sends Nynaeve to go find her. Then most of the Salidar Aes Sedai stumble into a pocket of nightmare and Elayne has to rescue them. A series of coincidences? What did you think of Elayne’s actions?

Well, I don’t think they are all coincidences. Why can’t a skilled T’A’R walker set a trolloc nightmare trap for the unwary or idiotic? Possibly a Forsaken or a Darkfriend with skills could have set it and it is my inclination to believe it was a trap. Was it set specifically for these idiots? Maybe, maybe not. Leane going off shortly before the Trolloc’s Favorite Fall Soup could merely be her wanting to check her network – or she had some other task she wanted to do (like Elayne going by her home throne room after the nightmare scene) – or she knew what was on the Trolloc menu and bowed out. If Leane chats about what info she uncovered through her network in the next reading section, I will be more inclined to believe in her innocence.

Elayne! Part of me really, really liked how she swallowed her fear and her gorge and stepped into the nightmare to rescue those idiots. It took a lot of bravery. But the volunteer rescue worker in me knows that 99% of the time, this is a really bad idea and results in greater body counts. If you don’t have backup waiting on the sidelines, it is usually a deadly idea to step into such a mess. Perhaps she can now convince these Salidar Aes Sedai to take her and Nynaeve more seriously!

3) Logain is unsettling the Aes Sedai left and right with his claim that the Red Ajah set him up as the false Dragon. How much of what he says do you think is true? How do you think the Aes Sedai, both at Salidar and those visiting from the White Tower, will react to his claims?

I expect Logain is telling the truth on this. However, I am not quite sure why retelling it again and again seems to have breathed some life into him. Perhaps he hopes that the Red Ajah will receive some rebuke or censure from the rest of the Aes Sedai and that idea gives him a warm fuzzy?

I expect the Salidar Aes Sedai will use Logain to bolster their bid for power and credibility with the nations of RandLand. I expect the White Tower Aes Sedai to go into a muddled state of indecision where Logain is concerned. If Elaida reacts to his claims, she is then acknowledging him. I am not sure she is capable of that. If they kill him publicly, that could be seen as a sign of guilt. Perhaps Elaida didn’t know about the Reds using Logain, in which case she will honestly believe he is lying, which will bolster her believe that the Salidar Aes Sedai need to be brought to heel.

JordanLordOfChaos4) The Lord Captain Commander Niall has information coming to him from many sources: his fake spymaster Omerna, his disguised spymaster Balwer, and some unknown via messenger pigeon. What do you make of all this various info and Niall’s acceptance or dismissal of it?

OK, is it just me, or are Elaida and Niall like the 2 sides of a coin, male & female? They both choose to believe what they want to believe and then look for facts to corroborate that belief.

I think Niall would be a lot more dangerous to Rand and crew if he listened to Balwer. Oh hell, if he listened to half of what Omerna said, he would be able to make Rand uncomfortable. He’s ignoring too much to be successful. Which is probably a good thing because I totally am Team Rand :).

Still, it is interesting that eyewitness accounts, statistics, even reliable spy statements really don’t matter. It can all be twisted and dismissed. Niall, like Elaida, need it in their face to believe it. Perhaps Rand could give Niall a demonstration – perhaps of what it is like to be tied up by the Power and left hanging in the middle of a room for a few hours – just until you really, really, really need to piss.

5) As Morgase returns from falconing, she sees many refugees along the road and questions one of her escorts, Norowhin. What do you make of his answers? How do you expect Morgase to proceed from this point?

C’mon Morgase! I want you to be a hero! Escape! Rally the troops! Kick some teeth down some throats and help Rand make the world safe for small children and puppies!

The refugees are going every which way and the countryside itself seems destitute. So this should tell Morgase something about the White Cloaks, right? Like perhaps they aren’t good for business, harvest, protecting the people, nor making dinner for large numbers of people. While I greatly hope she won’t get into bed with them for the sake of regaining her throne, I can see how she has narrowed her choices and may now feel like she has little choice. Sigh….

6) Rand goes to visit Culain’s Hound Inn, where he gets more than one surprise. Verin and Alanna are escorting several young ladies from Emond’s Field area to the White Tower to train as Aes Sedai. What do you think they will do now that they know of the split? More importantly, how would you have reacted to Alanna’s little trap that she set for Rand?

That must have been surreal for Rand. Still, many of those ladies treated Rand like they did back when he was home in Two Rivers….at least until he gave them a little, gentle demonstration of his powers. I kind of hope that Rand decides to have the ladies rounded up and removed from Verin and Alanna, but he might not deem such a thing worth his time, and also several of the ladies might protest greatly. Since Verin and Alanna now have their movements restricted, I would think they would want to keep the ladies with them, partially as guarantee that Rand not harm them (Verin & Alanna). I think Verin is too wise to try to take this gaggle of girls to the Tower in all this uncertainty. I am expecting that she or Alanna has a way to track down the Salidar Aes Sedai and I wouldn’t be surprised if they insist on going there. This would give Rand the opportunity to ring the location out of them, if he takes it.

As for Alanna and her new Warder…. Well, first, I would have slapped her. Then I would have kicked her in the shin. Next, a punch to the gut or breast. I would follow this up by sweeping her legs out from under her and put a on her to hold her to the ground while I define for her the parameters of our new relationship.

Honestly, I think Rand was quite controlled about the situation. Alanna didn’t get half of what she deserved. I did have an incredulous laugh when she complained to Verin about Rand ‘daring to limit their movements’. Hypocritical little witch, isn’t she?

7) Mazrim Taim wants to go out looking for men who can channel. Do you think his enthusiasm for building this army is for the Dragon Reborn or his own glory? How do you think he will fulfill Rand’s order to bring Henre Haslin, the drunk Master of the Sword, back?

Mazrim is all about Mazrim. He wants to lead an army for his own glory. Perhaps he thinks that with an army, he wouldn’t need to obey Rand, even if Rand is the stronger. Perhaps he doesn’t mind being second as long as he is in charge of the male Aes Sedai army. Still, Mazrim might have to be taken out before he spreads bloodshed all over the world.

I can see Mazrim either delegating the task of bringing Haslin back or doing it in such a way that Haslin refuses to work with Mazrim, the male Aes Sedai farm, or Rand. I think it would be very hard for Mazrim to swollow his pride and invite Haslin back, letting the whole camp know that Mazrim changed his mind.

Other Tidbits:

I liked how Nynaeve gave Siuan a talking to about refusing to let her attempt to heal her…. and then later Theodrin gives Nynaeve a very similar talking to about not letting Theodrin attempt to remove her block. Still, I will be surprised if either Siuan or Nynaeve turn around and cooperate fully with zeal.

OK, last week we talked about Semirhage and her secret every day identity. She has a stubborn charge. I now want to guess that she is Theodrin. Though I have to wonder about her little story about having a block herself – how she couldn’t channel around boys. True? Partially? Completely false to set Nynaeve at ease?

The Fires of Heaven Read Along Part V

JordanFiresOfHeavenBannerWelcome once again to the WoT Quad and our peanut gallery attempts to dissect this book, wringing every little tidbit of enjoyment out of it. There was definitely some mighty fine action, intrigue, and bare-ass shenanigans this week. I hope everyone enjoyed it as much as I did.

This week we covered Chapters 25-32. Spoilers lurk in every crevice (yes, even that unmentionable one) below. You have been warned.

1) Egwene nearly becomes trapped in a dream of Emond’s Field. Once she manages to untangle herself, we, the readers, see that Moghedien was lurking. How much trouble do you think Moghedien will cause Egwene & Nynaeve? Do you think Egwene needs to take some of her own advice?

I can definitely see Moghedien being Nynaeve’s nemesis for several books, if not the rest of series. I would expect Nynaeve to win in their final encounter, but Moghedein may take out people Nynaeve cares about deeply before that happens – so I am more worried about Egwene, or Jullin, or even Thom.

As for Egwene and her advice….hehe. So, she is such a prude sometimes, yet she seems to have a few young men in her dreams and on her mind, so perhaps she needs to not be so judgy of others. Also, she has been telling everyone to be careful in Tel’aran’rhiod and there she is, unescorted, and nearly becomes trapped in a beautiful dream that might have ended in a menage a trio wither her, Gawyn, and Galad.

2) Siuan & crew finally make it to Salidar. Did you expect Siuan & Leane to be grilled so by the aes sedai? Was Logain’s reception as you expected?

Yes, I expected the aes sedai to be full of questions and demands for info from Siuan and Leane. I expected them to put Logain under guard at least, and I really expected them to give him a grilling also – so when they didn’t, I have to wonder if they are idiots like Siuan is concerned they are – fussing over their tomato plants instead of planning for an attack.

Also, I wish to say that Siuan proves that even with out the aes sedai powers, the underlying personality is till there – she plotted with Leane a few hours ahead of time, in an effort to steer the aes sedai.

3) Gareth Bryne, his laundry, Siuan’s temper, and Min’s visions; what a mix! Having seen several examples of how Robert Jordan builds couples, do you have expectations for Siuan & Bryne? What do you make of Min’s visions?

Ha! Of course I think Siuan and Bryne will end up together. That is how it is. Two interesting people who have some connection to one another, maybe even attraction, will have to squabble and argue A LOT before they finally become an item… and then they will continue to squabble and argue.

Gosh, Min’s visions. Do we ever learn what every single one means? Is there some cheat sheet out there that has been made up by WoT fanatics? You know who you are – speak up! OK, so she saw a bull tossing roses off of him? Well… if I use some Freudian psychobabble, that possibly means that Bryne will finally loose his virginity? Oh, and Min saw a raven earlier related to one of the aes sedai, but I forget who. That makes me think of those mysterious bird messages that Aluda (spelling?) sent upon catching Nynaeve & Elayne. At any rate, Min’s visions give me something to contemplate late at night when I can’t sleep.

Big Mac smiling. He's a goofy goat.
Big Mac smiling. He’s a goofy goat.

4) Kadere manages to eliminate one of his allies (Isendre) and is hoping to locate another among the Aiel all in one short chapter. In retrospect, how do you feel about the treatment of Isendre by Kadere, Rand, & the Aiel women? Who do you think left the note for Kadere?

I think it is always good to have more than one thing you are good at, and more than one way to get what you want out of people. Isendre was one of those people that never bothered to learn another way to deal with people. Her flirtatious nature had served her well up to this point, and when she realized she wasn’t going to get what she wanted, she could not adapt. You can probably tell that I don’t have much sympathy for her. The opposite side of the flirtatious coin is the bully – both use a behavior set to force, trick, or cajole in order to enact some control over another.

OK, I am putting the soap box away. Kadere was using her because he can’t get into Natiel’s or Rand’s bed. He sees Isendre, and probably all women, as tools. I wouldn’t mind seeing him strangled. Oh, and cutting up a corpse that soon after death – there is going to be a significant amount of blood. I butcher goats from start to finish so I have a pretty good idea about how much blood is in humans and how easily it can be spilled.

I think the Aiel women started off making a good point, forcing Isendre to go dressed in only the jewelry she ‘stole’. I am not convinced that shaving her (completely, every hair folks) was truly necessary. I look at my little belly fuzz, and I wouldn’t care to have to be that precise or thorough in forcibly shaving another human. Think about Isendre’s personal bits! There’s a reason there is waxing instead of shaving. Who wants a knife that close? We had enough trouble forcibly shaving are well-behaved dog, I can only imagine the chore it would be to do so to a struggling human. Did those two Aiel ladies really shave every hair? I think they probably let a few be, just because of the awkward nature of the task. Personally, I think the nettle beating is what drove the point home.

As to who left the message – Hmm… Who is Mat bedding again? I think it is her. I don’t like her. I mean, I think it is good that Mat is getting some action, but the continued relationship seems a little too convenient.

5) What do you think motivated Edorion to make his bet with Rand on the Aiel arriving at Cairhein in time? Rand makes it clear that Rhuarc & crew are not to use rough methods to gain information from Estean. Should we be concerned for Estean’s safety?

I thought this was an interesting section. It really put in perspective the ‘wet landers’ fear of the Aiel and also the Aiel’s complete disdain for the wet landers. Perhaps Edorion was trying to lighten the mood, maybe to set his men at ease, by making that bet. It surprised me a bit.

Up to this point I have liked Rhuarc. But his readiness, even slight eagerness, to forcibly gain information from Estean was a bit disconcerting. I fear that Rand will be forced to be a steel-fisted ruler sooner rather than later with the Aiel – perhaps by hanging a few or publicly killing them in some way. Rand wants to unite the peoples of Rand-land, perhaps the world, against the coming confrontation with the Dark. I don’t think the Aiel understand that means they will have to learn to respect the so called wet landers.

6) Rand & Aviendha find themselves in the land of the Seanchan. All sorts of things (both physical and metaphorical) are laid bare. How do you think Rand & Aviendha’s relationship will change? Will the Seanchan become a bigger problem sooner rather than later due to this little visit?

I am glad that Rand finally bedded someone. I expect that Aviendha thoroughly enjoyed being the one to relieve him of his virginity. I thought it a bit silly that Rand felt they should get married, but I was also surprised by Aviendha’s flat refusal to sleep with him ever again. Ha! But we’ll see what her Aiel sisters do about that. I do have to say that I am a little weary of Rand and Aveindha, and indeed all the couples in the series, constantly bickering.

I think Rand just put Rand-land on the Seanchan radar square in the center. They want him, and not in any good way (unlike his harem). He is going to need some protection when they come for him, because they will come in force, will be highly organized, and failure will not be an option for those leading the force.

Other Tidbits:

So we have seen Rand use the portal stones, waygates, and even his personal floating disc in never land to go from point A to point B. Why were none of these options discussed in catching up to Couladin, especially after Edorion and his men show up?

Did I miss something – why is Aveindha opening some sort of gate into a blizzard on the other side of the world? When did she get that ability? She didn’t seem surprised by her actions, so I assume she has done something similar before, perhaps lots of times.

Here in the middle of Book 5, we have seen our Two Rivers kids grow up in so many ways. Even Nynaeve is shifting in her personality a bit with no longer having authority over Egwene. So, with all this maturing going on (Perrin saved Emond’s Field, Rand is He Who Comes With the Dawn, Elayne being so far from family & court, etc.), why do they all seem stunted when it comes to personal relationships with the opposite sex?