Welcome everyone! This is the third week of the dissection of Robert Jordan’s Book 8 of The Wheel of Time Series. Anyone is welcome to join us, so check out the schedule over HERE.
This week, our walking WoT encyclopedia, Eivind, is our host. You can catch his answers in the comments. Make sure to also check out Sue from Coffee, Cookies, & Chili Peppers and Liesel from Musings on Fantasia.
This week we covered Chapters 10-15. Spoilers run free and in their birthday suits below!
1. Winter is finally here, and Perrin gets a whole country from Santa, even if it’s a small and war-torn one. What a jolly mix of unwilling rulers, weak rulers, strong rulers, sexy rulers and ex-rulers… never mind the Prophet! What will this look like when Perrin gets back to Rand, whenever that could be?
Perrin is inadvertently gathering his little collection of followers. Potentially, this could exacerbate any kind of falling out Rand and Perrin could have in the future. There is already some disagreement over how the Aes Sedai (given over to the Aiel) have been treated. Personally, I think Egwene needs to give Perrin bat to his ears as she had to go through much of the same as the Aes Sedai. The Aiel are tough on everyone, not just obnoxious Aes Sedai.
Others may also start to encourage Perrin to break from the Dragon Reborn, or even challenge him. So, yeah, lots of potential for grief and consternation.
2. Moridin appears to be marshaling the efforts of the dark side. Do you think they’ll be more successful now that they’re under unified leadership? Now that Cyndane is here, I challenge you all to guess the identities of her and Moridin. Are you expecting any more forsaken to show up?
Oh, I suck at these. I need some rhyme or little song to remember all the Forsaken. But it would probably be wrong to put the Forsaken names to some child’s sing-song rhyme.
Arghhhhhh!!!! OK, I just went over to the Wheel of Time Wiki to look for a simple list of the Forsaken to help jog my memory and bumped into a TON of BIG spoilers for later in the series. Fuck, I hate doing that.
So, It is my memory of the Forsaken and this question. Sammael is supposedly dead and not coming back. Same with Asmodean. Lanfear is MIA and assumed dead by everyone but the readers. I guess Cyndane could be Lanfear redone. Graendal didn’t seem to have any regard for her until she saw that Moghedien was deferring to her.
I don’t really have a guess for Moridin. Well, I don’t have a good educated guess. I have some crappy guesses. Perhaps he is an Asha’man hidden at the Black Tower, poised to strike down the idiot good side at the best moment. He isn’t the laughing Myrrdraal that has so much say, being the walking, talking mouthpiece of the Dark One.
And, yes, I expect Forsaken to keep being regurgitated back into the world during the second half of the series. And can Dark Friends be elevated to Forsaken?
3. The long-awaited meeting between Cadsuane and Sorilea took place. Was it everything you hoped for? What’s your opinion on their common quest?
This was awesome! And I love how they traded some skills as a sign of respect and trust. Quite nice. And yes, I am pleased that they both seem to be united in keeping Rand sane by reminding him he is human.
Now, I want to see them both dogpile him and have a tickle fight with him – to the point where he is laughing and crying at the same time, and perhaps on the brink of peeing his pants. That would nice. Too much to ask for?
4. The latest status report from the Black Tower reveals a good number of deserters, madmen and losses to accidents. Do you feel like Rand has control of the situation? He reveals that he’s thinking about cleansing Saidin, that he asked the Aelfinn about it but doesn’t understand their answer. Do you expect him to be able to, and if so how? Could this help the Black Tower situation somehow?
Wow! This is a messed up situation. Rand needs to step in and have a good hard look himself. I can agree with letting the mad go easily in their sleep, but the heads on spikes thing is a bit much. And why isn’t he asking why people continue to desert even after the heads on spikes policy became a thing? I smell poor management that is too heavy handed….and perhaps enjoys bringing suffering to others.
Since Book 1, I have guessed that Rand would need to cleanse Saidin at some point. But, frankly, I think this will be done in the final book – and it might be more of side effect of defeating the Dark One. It’s cool he is thinking about it now, and starting to try to figure out how to make that happen. After all, none of us really want to see Rand go insane. Well, not unless his women drive him to it.😉
So, with that in mind, I expect that once Rand saves the world, there will be some version of the Black Tower at the end and yes, having a clean power source would help them. In fact, the Aes Sedai might just deign to bed the Asha’men and live in harmony, etc.
5. Egwene is back, and she has a plan involving the Andoran border defense force somehow. Any guesses as to what’s on her mind?
Hmm…. well, I didn’t really give this much thought at the time. I’m trying to recall how the Andorans fight – knights? archers? Hmm… Maybe she plans to invoke Elayne’s name to get assistance from Andor in gaining a free path to the White Tower? But it would probably go better if Elayne put in a personal appearance.
Then of course there are the Seanchan. I know Egwene is going to want to kick their asses. So maybe she will arrange for the two forces (Seanchan and Andoran border defense) to meet. Hmm….maybe she can arrange for the White Tower to meet the Seanchan and these two forces can strike away at each other, whittling down their forces, making it that much easier for Egwene to come in and assume control.
So, obviously I have no clue. But I certainly look forward to finding out what Egwene has planned.
6. Galina is forced to swear obedience on an oath rod, and a few chapters later we see Egwene and Siuan debate the relevance of the oaths for Aes Sedai (which is not to lie, not to make weapons, and not to use the power as a weapon). If I’m not mistaken it’s the first time we see how it works (it’s physically impossible for Galina to disobey). What are your thoughts on this?
I think we have been told that the oath rods were originally made to force obedience from criminal elements, right? In that sense, it is probably more humane that other punishments, and with better results. However, the original purpose seems to be long outdated and twisted. No wonder the Aes Sedai as a whole are always trying to find a way to twist things, get out of promises, and appear to agree to things when in fact they don’t. If the Aes Sedai spent as much as they do on this twisting everything as on trying to be decent people, then I bet far more would get done.
Sevaana definitely doesn’t need an oath rod sworn follower who hates her guts and wants to skin her alive. Oh, wait, maybe Sevaana does. But, in general, free followers are the way to go, not forced.
And Egwene is right in that promising to only fight when forced to it, in defense, ties their hands immensely. They are trying to save the world; I think they need every advantage they can get and this includes the ability to fire first when circumstances warrant it. Like spotting Graendel or Moghedien from a distance.
Perrin was trying so hard to be forthright and a gentleman to Queen Alliander. And Faile managed to basically dismiss Perrin before he messed it all up with too much honesty.
Who was the young Asha’man that was so concerned reporting to Rand about what he saw in Ebou Dar? He said that Saidin felt strange, that it was trying to control him, etc. Perhaps the Bowl of the Winds is a wee bit more dangerous than any of the ladies know?
It certainly is nice to see Sevaana losing some control over her entourage. Very satisfying.