The Shadow Rising Read Along Part X

JordanShadowRisingBannerHere we are at the finale of Book 4 of The Wheel of Time series, The Shadow Rising. There were some twists that I wasn’t expecting. We’ll be jumping right into Book 5, The Fires of Heaven. You can see the schedule over HERE if you missed it and want to join us.

This week our fearless and insightful commenter Eivind came up with the excellent questions.

The spoilers don’t want you to avert your eyes, but I suggest you do if you have not read this book.

1. Seems like Rand is not the only one who can stand toe-to-toe against a forsaken. Surprised? Could there be others, and if so, who?

No, I was not surprised that Nynaeve could at least hold her own against Moghedien. I expect we will see others, like Mat and Egwene. Also, we might groups of folks who face a forsaken together and win, like the Ogier. I expect we still have plenty to learn about their culture and strengths.

2. What went on between Elayne and Amathera? Should she lay off the forceful reeducation of foreign monarchs or just keep at it, you think?

I expect it was girl talk. I don’t think Elayne hurt Amathera, but rather, showed her that she really is out classed and that prettily pouting and stamping her little foot won’t get her what she wants. In this case, I think Elayne is doing some good, though I do find it a little hypocritical in that Elayne was sheltered and pampered most of her life and it has only been recently that she has been rubbing elbows with the masses and having to tend to her own needs. Yet, perhaps that is why she feels that such an education is so necessary for Amathera.

3. So we have our first “proper” battle, of many more to come no doubt. Please air your thoughts here, since I can’t find anywhere to put a question mark.

I liked that the women of Emon’s field were present, armed, and competent. They had the children taken into the forest in hopes that they at least would escape the slaughter. It was really hard on Perrin, but he stood with them to the last, never balking. Of course Faile showing up in the nick of time with armed men from Debin (spelling?) was great. She said that she was the first woman of her land to lead soldiers in battle. I didn’t laugh a little as she lead men to  versus in a battle, but I don’t recall her actually doing more than finding Perrin.

4. Could these whitecloaks be any more pathetic if they tried? REALLY HARD?

I have to wonder what all the Whitecloak soldiers think of this. I mean, we have the leaders, who are into ineffectual, single-minded idiots. But what does the average Whitecloak piss ant think? Did they sign up to fight the dark, but then their leaders keep them from taking out trollocs? I would be pissed. Or were most of them coerced into joining and silently sighed relief at not having to join in the fighting? At any rate, they were the best equipped to assist in the fighting and they did not. Loosers.

5. So now (or soon enough) EVERY Aiel knows their history, and many are none too pleased. Was this the right call? How much support has Rand lost now?

Rand had to prove that he had been to Rhuidean, which meant publicly revealing something major he learned there. By Couladin calling Rand and idiotic liar, the senior Aiel who had also been to Rhuidean could immediately tell who was the liar. I think Rand was right to do it in that moment, and I think he was right in what he chose to reveal. The Aiel cannot come together as a people, let alone fight side by side with non-Aiel, without acknowledging their roots.

I expect that initially there will be some who will not want to support Rand, and I know the clan chiefs are pissed. But eventually his Ta’veren-ness will pull them all together, or destroy those who continue to oppose him.

6. With the massive sa’angreal access keys in hand, shouldn’t Rand be able to just steamroll through the next 10 books? Do you think he has a use in mind for them?

Well, we wouldn’t have another 10 books if Rand suddenly became all powerful and could just take out all opposition. So, these sa’angreal will be a boost, but won’t be the answer to all problems. I expect he has a few ideas in mind for their uses, but I bet there is plenty to learn about what they can do, but also their limitations or dangers. I wish they came with warning labels, even simple obvious ones like: Do not cook meat in dryer; Do not hold wrong end of chainsaw; This sign has sharp edges.

7. Asmodean… teaching Rand? On a scale from Kim Kardashian* to Stephen Hawking, how good of an idea is this, really? (*) Please ignore if you’re a fan.

So, I did not see this coming at all, and yet, it is obviously what Rand needs. Not only was he expecting at least 1 Forsaken to try to take him out in the Aiel Waste, he was hoping it would be a man, so he would have a servant teacher on hand. I really like that Rand is using his brain instead of just reacting on gut instinct to the situations he finds himself in.

But, yeah, Asmodean doesn’t seem to be the brightest of the bunch of Forsaken. So, Rand might not have picked the best teacher, even though his choices are limited.

Other Tidbits:

Nynaeve was ticked that somehow Moghedien escaped her bonds without her noticing, while she was busy with one of the Black Ajah and her Bale Fire Stick. I thin Moghedien is a great one for disguise and camouflage, and that she was there all the time but had camouflaged herself in to the background.

Perrin wrote Aiel a love note. Well, a goodbye note. He is more of a romantic than I thought.

Haha! Rand tricked a Forsaken and captured another. I’m sticking out my tongue at Lanfear!

13 thoughts on “The Shadow Rising Read Along Part X”

  1. 1. Not surprised perhaps, but certainly elated. We’ve been told that Nynaeve is the strongest of the girls, but Egwene and Elayne aren’t far behind, so they can probably do it in time, too. Aviendha seems to be headed for main-character-dom, so put her on the list as well. Logain might have been able to, before he was stilled. Still a pretty short list :(.

    2. While I appreciate her sense of justice and rightness and being in touch with the needs of the people and all that, and the fact that this all took place while the palace was coming apart and Black Ajah were running about, I can’t help but thinking this is a big breach of diplomatic protocol, which Elayne presumably knows all about.

    3. The Two Rivers people showed some serious guts, there. I can’t help but wonder why Perrin didn’t send for help himself. Faile snuck past the Trollocs easily enough, and she decided to do it on her own accord. Oh, and for a final confirmation of the Slayer theory, I hope you all caught on to the Trollocs shouting “ISAM!”

    4. I don’t even know what to say. Dedicated to fighting the Shadow, but sitting on your asses watching a village get slain because you think their leader might be a darkfriend? What a… well… dick. What a dick.

    5. He wanted every Aiel behind him, but he won’t have that now. The Shaido are gone, and a number of Aiel apparently just gave up on the whole thing and walked away. Some of them even joined the Shaido. I appreciate that he had to prove his validity, but maybe he could have presented the proof to the other clan chiefs in private. Well, it’s all theoretical now.

    6. Indeed, we wouldn’t have 10 more books if that was the case. They have another reason for being here than just being the “weapon too dangerous to touch”, though, and for Rand to overcome temptation or something like that. Same with Callandor, actually.

    7. This seems like it could be a really good idea or a really bad one. Even shielded there are still about a hundred things Asmodean could do to foil the good guys, so we’re banking everything on the presumption that he can’t go back to the baddies. That might be true, but it’s still a bit of a chance to take. On the other hand, who else is there?


    Let’s do a Forsaken roll call again. There are still eight at large.

    Asmodean: Captured.
    Demandred: Unknown.
    Graendal: Unknown.
    Lanfear: Being her usual self.
    Mesaana: Unknown.
    Moghedien: Tanchico, bruised ego.
    Rahvin: Unknown (can’t recall if we know this yet or not, I’ll put unknown to be safe.)
    Sammael: Illian.
    Semirhage: Unknown.

    1. I agree with your assessment of Whitecloak courage. And I think we do know about Rahvin. I don’t remember when or who, but it seems like someone said it–maybe one of the Forsaken? Can’t remember. If I’m wrong, though, we’ll know soon enough. 😀

    2. I’m really glad that you gave us some info on Isam/Luc/Slayer last week, otherwise I would have been a little lost as to why the trollocs would be shouting Isam.

      What a dick sums up Whitecloakness. Totally agree with you there.

      Looks like we have plenty more Forsaken to meet & greet. I wonder if they use Tel’aran’rhiod for support group meetings.

  2. That’s a cool theory: that perhaps Moghedien was there all along. I never thought of it that way, but you may be right. I always just thought that,with Nynaeve being so new to the One Power, there was a flaw in her shield, or else Moghedien did something she couldn’t comprehend to get free. Good stuff, though. 😀

    1. Since Moghedien is the trickster of the Forsaken, I figure she has some ability to blend in, disguise, or outright disappear. Should be interesting to see if we get any more tidbits that indicate this.

  3. 1. It is interesting that you mention the Ogier defeating a Forsaken because we saw the last Nym taking one out in Book 1. I can’t imagine that anyone would want to face a group of angry Ogier.

    2. I suspect that Elayne was raised to be very familiar with the lower classes, and in the White Tower she was not given any special treatment because of her status. However, that is very different from actually being poor – something that I suspect Amathera has never been either.

    5. Well, the prophecy does say that he will destroy the Aiel, so I can’t imagine that everything will be sunshine and roses from now on.

    7. I think you are right to say that Asmodean is a bit dim: his trick with Couladin was fairly stupid.

    1. Yes, a troop of ticked off Ogier would be most dangerous. If their steddings cut off the One Power, I wonder if a group of them can do the same to a single opponent outside of the stedding?

      Yeah Rand! You managed to capture and coerce the dimmest of the Forsaken into being your guide in how to use the One Power. *pats farmboy on the head*

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