The Shadow Rising Read Along Part VIII

JordanShadowRisingBannerWelcome all! This week Liesel from Musings on Fantasia is hosting, so make sure to stop by her place for great fan art and more discussion. Chapters 43-48 are covered.

My answers will be a bit shorter than usual as I have had an exhausting weekend that involved a bit of a flood (click the link to see cool photos of my (questionable) endeavors to protect our home and farm).

Spoilers reside below and are well established. Merely glancing at them will not protect your innocence.

1. Perrin believes Verin and possibly Alanna are trying to use and/or manipulate him in some way. What do you think their agenda is?

I think Alanna wants his body (and who doesn’t?) but that doesn’t mean she should have it. Verin wants to study the affect of a ta’veren like it is her graduating paper in a PhD in Intellectual Haughtiness.

2. Aram, a tinker, takes up a sword. Do you think this is a good thing or a bad thing? How do you feel about Aram’s reasons?

I think people who have read my last responses to questions concerning The Way of the Leaf probably know what my answer is. If you repeatedly do nothing to prevent or stop the violence then you are part of the problem. I think Aram is correct in seeking a way to defend him and those he cares for. The Tinkers shunning him are committing emotional/mental violence and I do not hold them in regard for it.

3. Perrin agrees to let the Whitecloaks into Emmond’s Field if they will put off arresting him until after the Trolloc threat is neutralized. Do you think this was a wise decision? How do you predict it will all turn out?

I think Perrin was right to put the human-on-human violence on hold until the trollocs and/or Myrdraal are dealt with. However, I expect that one or more of the Whitecloaks will force the issue before the agreed upon time and end up dead and Perrin on the run from them again.

4. A woman who favors doing evil from behind the scenes “like a spider” visits Nynaeve and Elayne and compels them, first to tell her everything they’ve done and are doing in Tanchico, and then to forget they told it to her. Who do you think she is? What is her agenda? Will our girls ever remember what happened?

Off hand, I would say this is one of the Forsaken. Her mind-control or compelling powers are unlike what we have seen before, kind of like when the Seanchan first came on scene. She obviously craves info, especially on how many aes sedai are in her city. Apparently, she can sense when someone nearby uses the one power, which could be a pretty nifty party trick (like being able to correctly pick out the silent farters at a cocktail party). I don’t know what her agenda is, but I hope she brings me the reader plenty of dark entertainment. I don’t know if our ladies will remember the exchange. If they do, Nynaeve will be thoroughly pissed.

5. Siuan Sanche is deposed and the White Tower is broken. Siuan and Leane vow revenge on Elaida. Will they be able to see that vow through? What kind of Amyrlin do you think Elaida will prove to be?

Yeah, that was messed up, wasn’t it? Siuan and Leane will have to find new inner strength instead of relying on the one power. Part of me hopes they have their vengeance on Elaida, but it really depends on whether or not she can kick ass as the Amyrlin. I expect she will be highly organized, given to extremes once she has made up her mind, and extremely hard to kill.

6. Gawyn Trakand killed at least two prominent warders who were once his friends and mentors because they were trying to free Siuan. Then, even knowing who she really is, helps her, Leane, and Min escape. Where do you think his true loyalties lie? What do you think of the reasons he gives for his actions?

I think he is conflicted and in the midst of realizing that. I can easily see how, in the heat of the moment, he truly believed he was doing the right thing in preventing Siuan’s rescue, though it cost him greatly. However, when he saw Min had the same agenda, he had to rethink what he thought to be true and right. Though I am curious about what Min’s sees hovering over his head – him at Egwene’s feet, and then him strangling her. Perhaps he will change sides many times throughout the rest of the series?

7. On the road, the three women run into Logain, who is trying to flee Tar Valon and Siuan asks for his help. What kind of dynamic do you think this relationship will yield? We know many Aes Sedai who opposed Elaida have fled the tower. Where do you think they’ve gone and will Siuan be able to find and/or rally them?

I was kind of hoping Logain would get to play a larger role. He is fascinating as a man who has been stilled. I can see a love/hate relatioship blossoming between him and Siuan. I hope they end up in bed together and through their great love for one another reignite their ability to chanel, go kill Elaida, the Forsaken, Mr. Ultimate Evil, and any other scourge that gets in their way and rule the world happily together ad naseum.

But that is probably asking a little too much.

Anyhoo, I doubt that all those who opposed Elaida and managed to flee will end up in the same place to begin with. Siuan will have to pick them up as she goes until she has a large enough force to throw up a flag and call for more followers openly. I hope she will rally them as this would make an entertaining tale for me and that is the whole reason I read books.

Other Tidbits:

I know that Europe and US have a history of paying their soldiers in alcohol, but I really think that Perrin has learned not to leave the inebriated armed and without leadership.

Poor Lioal – having to chop down trees. I hope him and Gaul can accomplish their mission of closing the Waygate – if that is indeed what they left to do.

9 thoughts on “The Shadow Rising Read Along Part VIII”

  1. 1. Alanna seems to think that the best way to meddle in events is to make a warder of one of the ta’veren. One can hope that having to ask permission will keep her from it. As for Verin, well, she’s a bit of a conundrum. Refer to previous discussions about her. She might be telling the truth when she says they’re there for recruits, but things are never that simple with Aes Sedai, and doubly so with her.

    Good luck with that water. Would be nice being able to channel now, I guess?
    2. I can totally understand it, and I can’t fault anyone for what happened here. I wish I could say everything would be OK with Aram, that he totally knows what he’s doing, but… well, time will tell.

    3. I hope he can put a lid on this situation for a while. I’m afraid that just because he has negotiated an agreement with the commander of the Whitecloak regiment, it might not trickle down properly, i.e. Bornhald (while on the face of it a reasonable guy) might not have the necessary control of his forces, what with Fain doing his thing, and Byar refusing to listen.

    4. She is pretty obviously a forsaken, and probably not Lanfear. Since all five female forsaken are still alive and well, we have four suspects: Graendal, Mesaana, Moghedien and Semirhage. None of them have entered the story in an official capacity yet, so we don’t have any way of telling.

    5. Oooohh Elaida, now you’ve done it. NOW YOU’VE DONE IT. One can hope our heroes can do what is needed, although I have a hard time seeing how that’s supposed to come about. What struck me as most disastrous when I first read this chapter was that the Horn of Valere is still in the Tower, now lost to the bad guys, yet not a mention was made of that. And I had to do a double-take when I read that Siuan and Leane were stilled. Next to Ingtar I guess this is the closest thing we’ve come to the death of a main character?

    Another thing to note is this: who benefits from a broken Tower? The Black Ajah for sure. I’ll wager that if you looked among the supporters for the coup you would find a larger than normal rate of darkfriends, not necessarily because they support Elaida, but because they were ordered to cause division to further their own aims. Make note of the names of her backers, those who seized Siuan for example.

    6. Gawyn’s reputation among fans is pretty miserable (compared to other good guys, at least), and it starts off here. Just bad choices all around. You should have gone with them, Gawyn.

    7. Methinks Siuan has a plan, and I don’t know what that could be. (That’s a lie, I do know.) Still, interesting to see him enter the story.


    When reading the homecoming to Emond’s Field I was reminded of the fact that Robert Jordan was a Vietnam war veteran. I know he took great care in writing war and battle scenes. They’re very different from the way Sanderson does it, I feel. Jordan is great at communicating a sense of confusion, which is exactly how everyone feels in a battle. I’ve never been in one, but I did participate in some exercises, and I never had any idea what was going on, and that’s how I felt with the skirmish in the forest as well. There will be other examples of this as shit starts hitting the fan properly over the next 1-2 books.

    1. Alanna seeking a warder: it’s kind of a the equivalent of a gold digger who’s looking for a rich spouse, or just someone looking for a one night stand. Logical, well-meaning people really ought to run the other way screaming. I agree about Aram. He seems to start out on the right track–and completely understandable. Reading this part through the second time, I tried to look for any strangeness, and there are some things that you can see how they could become twisted, but they really aren’t here at the beginning. I keep forgetting about the Fain complication while reading about Perrin. He’s kind of like a random tiddley wink that might pop up anywhere and make the universe implode. I loved seeing the spider description for this Forsaken woman. Very interesting to read through the second time. And I agree that the breaking of the Tower and Siuan and Leanna’s stilling was shocking. I remember reading it with my mouth hanging open the first time. As for Gawyn, I’ve always loved him. It’s total bias on my part, but I can’t help it. I love it no matter what. πŸ˜€ I think you’re right about Jordan’s battle scenes and the confusion he manages to convey. I never thought about it that way before, but you’re totally right. πŸ˜€

    2. 1. I believe a person can be Bonded as a Warder without their permission, but I doubt that Alanna would live long if she tried it with Perrin: Faile would fill her full of knives faster than thinking.

      2. I am pretty sure that Aram has no idea at all what he’s doing, but simply feels the need to do something to protect his people.

      5. Good point about the Horn: I had totally forgotten about it in all the excitement . . . that is definitely a bad thing. I suppose the only hope there is that Siuan had it hidden somewhere and Elaida can’t find it.

      I agree: Elaida is probably up to ears in nasty Black Ajah right now and will stay on position only as long as they let her continue to take all the heat for the coup. Dozy woman!

      6. That seems a little unjust towards the poor lad: he was acting with limited information in the heat of the moment. However, I can see how he will be haunted by his decisions for a long time to come.

      7. I wonder if even Siuan knows what the plan is just yet . . . but I imagine it involves a fishing metaphor of some type.

      I didn’t know that he was a veteran, but it certainly makes sense. He seems to show battles from very narrow POVs which is great for conveying the total chaos of the situation.

    3. Yes, it would be grand to channel water now. Fans and time seem to be doing what needs to be done.

      Even if Aram doesn’t become some decent swordsman, there are numerous ways to thwart Bad – like setting horses free from picket lines at night, peeing on edible supplies, hiding the children and elderly of the those doing the fighting. So, I hope he finds something useful to do.

      I don’t expect Byar to play fair. It should be interesting to see how he ends up dead.

      I was a bit shocked about the stilled aes sedai – but this allows Jordan to show us what the stilled go through and can they adapt and still be of use. Definitely looking forward to that. Though my little devious mind suspects Leane is Black Ajah and was called upon (or forced) into her current role of a stilled aes sedai to gain Siuan’s confidence. But I could simply be paranoid.

      Hmm… yes, what will happen with that Horn? Only Mat can use it, at least until he is dead. I look forward to more necessary staff work by Mat in the near future.

  2. Intellectual Haughtiness = Love it! πŸ˜€ I agree about Aram, and Perrin’s dealings with the Whitecloaks. You’re right that it’s one of the Forsaken. Don’t worry, we’ll get plenty of satisfying, dark entertainment from this character. And don’t worry: Logain actually will take up somewhat of a larger role as the story progresses. I remember reading it the first time and thinking, “I don’t care about this guy.” But as it went on, he began one of the most interesting side characters in the story. He definitely grows on you. πŸ˜€

    1. Glad to hear that Logain will be interesting. So far the story line has told us a lot about men and women stilled, but now Robert Jordan will show us through Logain, Siuan, and Leane what that means exactly. Looking forward to it.

  3. Crumbs: that flooding looks unpleasant – I hope you are getting back to normal and can now get about with using a boat!

    1. Alanna so has the hots for Perrin . . . but then he does sound quite hunky with those big shoulders and I bet he has wonderful definition on his chest and abs . . . not sure about the beard, but that can always come off . . . I wonder how he would look in a kilt . . . . . . sorry, got carried away a bit there! πŸ˜€

    4. Nynaeve thoroughly pissed? As if that is likely to happen!

    5. It is interesting that you think Elaida would be efficient as the Amyrlin. Personally, I think that she will be unable to do very much at all because she needs to keep the support of the treacherous cows who followed her into the rebellion. Pretty soon she will realize that they will get rid of her just as quickly as they did Siuan and then she will be totally powerless. Oh dear, what a shame! πŸ˜€

    6. I think Min’s viewing showed that he had not yet decided which way he would go in the future and so the possible outcomes are both still possibilities. However, I find it hard to believe that he would strangle Egwene because he is in love with her. Poor guy!

    I expected Perrin to put the Congars and Coplins in charge of guarding the village pond or something else that they couldn’t muck up . . . perhaps next time he will simply lock them in a cellar! πŸ˜€

  4. I will be moving sand, rocks, and desert mulch for some time to come. Only winter will cease my efforts to reshape the farm after that flood. Part of my parking area is now 2 feet higher.

    Hmmm….raised eyebrow…..Now I want to see Perin in a kilt. Perhaps it is a manly tradition where Faile is from – for the men to wear kilts to court, or int he field, or around the bedroom.

    Perhaps Egwene won’t return Gawyn’s affections and he will have a jealous mad rage that could end in one of two ways. I am still rooting for the guy, hoping he can make some decisions that do some good.

    Yes, I think no one expected the Congars and Coplins to have to do any defending at all, so no one thought to set them to guarding the root cellars. Poor Perin.

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