The Shadow Rising Read Along Part VII

JordanShadowRisingBannerWelcome everyone! Lots of craziness went on in this section (Chapters 37-42). This was my week to come up with the questions and I had a hard time sticking to singles that would work for our mixed group (folks who have read the book/series before and those newbies, like me), so you’ll see most questions are doubled up. I encouraged the rest of the WoT Quad to pick and choose which questions they would like to answer. After all, this is all about having fun. Oh, and living vicariously through Perrin, at least for me.

Without, further ado, here are the questions, full of spoilery bits, questionable humor, and one risque video.

1) Rand and his entourage make a stop in Tardaad land because there is water, and apparently, goats. There is also a dwelling full of the signs of a slaughter. The red veiled woman Isendre had to take a peak. Why? If you know the answer, you can speculate on what will become of the goats.

I think Isendre might be the evil Rand was expecting. I have to giggle and shake my head at Mat’s musings on stealing a kiss from her. His flirtatious nature may land him in trouble this time, but I will sure enjoy the entertainment factor in it. So who is Isendre and the slaughterhouse show? Well, at the least, she is a dark friend. She could be more. Perhaps she has some control over a Myrdraal or trollocs. I expect she wanted to see the handy work of her minions – a cheap thrill for her.

I expect the goats will be rounded up and either sent back with a small group or taken with them. After all, it is a harsh land and such easily movable meat & milk will not be wasted.

2) Natael: Harmless, adverturesome gleeman, or Darkfreind? Will Mat’s skilled ‘avoidance’ of the gleeman’s questioning be enough to keep him out of trouble? If we could reach into Mat’s head and have him translate any phrase into old Manetheren, what phrase would you choose?

OK, not everyone on that caravan can be a Darkfriend, right? Not because they aren’t numerous like the spawn they are, but because that would be too simple and I think we all know that Robert Jordan is not doing simple in Book 4. It would make sense that the Darkfriends Party Train include some entertainment – for themselves and to gain easier access to whoever they come across in the Waste. So, for now, I will say Natael is on the level.

Can I get Mat to say this in old Manetheren: One Rand to rule them all, one Rand to find them, one Rand to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them.

3) Liandrin is back in the picture. What do you make of the conflicting orders Bors has received concerning Rand? Do you think Gyldin, the servant who is spying for the Seanchan, knows the full extent of who Liandrin is? What do you think of the idea of tattoos marking you as royal property?

Well, we have already seen glimpses of the competing factions trying to rule the known world. Bors was ordered to kill Rand and now his family members are being taken, one by one, because he has not killed Rand. Liandrin tells him not to, because they want to bind and use him. Does anyone else picture her in some very proper German matron outfit, with Dominatrix leathers underneath? Anyway, this just points to more of that in fighting that is slowing down the bad guys. Let’s not discourage them.

No, I don’t. At least not yet. She probably knows Liandrin and the others are Aes Sedai, and Black Ajah, but not the full grasp of serving the Evil One. The Seanchan are hierarchical and driven by the need for power and control, but not necessarily evil. So, for most, the Black Ajah are probably just a bunch of rebel Aes Sedai that can currently be used as a tool.

I love it when tatts mean something deep – in this case a live of unquestioning servitude. Oh, and they look cool. Tattos on a nicely muscled human form is always appreciated. Feel free to send pictures ;).

4) After a bit too much wine, an awkward conversation with Thom Merrylin, and a drunken sick in her shared room with Nynaeve, Elayne is still trusted to stand watch as Nynaeve dives into Tel’aran’rhiod. Was it wise of Nynaeve to trust an impaired Elayne with such a duty? The mysterious man resembling Lan who shot at Nynaeve in T’A’R has also been sighted by Perrin. What do you think the connection is, if any, between Lan and this deadly dreamworld walker?

Every once in a while, Nynaeve is an idiot. No, someone drunk, sick, and obviously sleepy shouldn’t be put on ‘guard’ duty. I did enjoy that conversation between Thom and Elayne tho – it confirmed some things hinted at…last book? Thom could be her biological dad – and if not, he can turn into a substitute father.

Well, supposedly Lan has zero living family. So, either the close resemblance is just coincidence (and we all know how Mr. Coincidence has been rather scarce in this series, with Miss Prophecy prancing around), or Lan has some half brother or close cousin running around who has an all-star T’A’R pass. I think it is too simple for Lan to be without any family and to find out he does have at least one male member, and a baddie at that, would create all sorts of grief and consternation. So, I am looking forward to that reveal when it happens.

5) Lord Luc decided to leave Perrin’s hunting party after the latest batch of trollocs was identified but before Perrin’s group was ambushed. Coincidence? Perrin says he trusts Faile, his bow,Β  and his axe. Which, in your opinion, is the most dangerous?

I still don’t trust Lord Luc, and neither does Perrin. the sequencing of events was too convenient: 1) The Aiel ID location of trollocs and report to Perrin. 2) Lord Luc bows out of the hunt, trying to take Faile off with him. 3) Trollocs appear in the wrong place. Adult Aiel hunters rarely, if ever, make such a location ID mistake. So, I am thinking Lord Luc hustled out of there and told the baddies they had been spotted, and then they managed to circle around and create havoc. Bastard.

Well, if I was attempting to gain Perrin’s affections, I would say Faile. So, since he is so heavily guarded, I won’t. In battle, I will say his axe. If his wolf pack was around, I would say the wolf pack is the most dangerous asset Perrin has.

6) Ila of the Tinkers and Faile have a discussion about The Way of the Leaf: One believes it is for everyone and one believes it is not for everyone. What did you think of this conversation? We finally learn about Faile’s family and upbringing: Surprised? How do you think this will affect her relationship with Perrin?

OK, the Tinkers are peace lovers, singers, vegetarians. But they keep these really large dogs. What do they feed the dogs? Dogs can survive on vegetarian fare for a while, perhaps a few years, but biologically, they are not made for it. So, are they allowed to hunt their own meat, like squirrels and frogs? And The Way of the Leaf allows for group shunning – which is psychological damage. So, I have to say that insisting The Way of the Leaf is for everyone is a bit presumptuous, if I am being polite. I’m with Faile on this one.

I think Perrin and Faile will be closer, for now, because of sharing this info back and forth. they st will be a close couple, sneaking kisses, traded flirts and compliments, and generally being rather too cute about it all in public. At least until Perrin must be introduced to Faile’s relations. In fact, where is the royal hunting party sent out to locate Faile and drag her ass back to court?

7) In Tel’aran’rhiod, Perrin learns that the nearest Waygate, the one shut by Loial when they all came through to Emond’s Field, has been opened. Who do you think did so and why? In your head, how do you picture the sa’sara dance Faile kept threatening/promising Perrin with?

I suspect Lord Luc or Alanna, but mostly Luc. I think Verin and Alanna were told that Loial closed it from the outside and Lord Luc could have found out some how, or simply went up to check. Then there is Padan Fain in the area, and depending on whether or not he wants more trollocs (because wasn’t there a hint that he was a renegade and needed to be taken down) Fain could have reopened the Waygate. Then if any of the Emond’s Field folks are Darkfriends, like a Congar or such, they could have been ordered to it.

I picture the sa’sara to be the female version of this:

Yep, Faile definitely will make Perrin’s blood boil with moves like that.

Other Tidbits:

Anyone else wondering what Min is doing? Wasn’t there suppose to be death and mayhem at the White Tower?

Damn, Perrin, you got skewered! Apparently Alanna is the only one who can heal him…or is Verin holding back to put Perrin in Alanna’s hands? I have a deep concern that Perrin is going to end up Alanna’s very reluctant Warder.

I am so very, very curious about Elayne’s letters to Rand. Why does he think they are conflicting? Are they conflicting? Why 2 letters? Egwene and Aviendha assume Elayne said only loving things in those letters, but I suspect that might not be so. Poor Rand.

What Others Think:

Musings on Fantasia

Coffee, Cookies, & Chili Peppers

12 thoughts on “The Shadow Rising Read Along Part VII”

  1. 2. At least there’s no secret something is up with the peddler caravan, but it’s interesting to see your theories on who and what is up. At least I can tell you to pay attention to what he was asking about (Rhuidean), and if we have see anyone else who are particularly interested in it.

    For the old tongue I might go with the litany against fear from Dune.

    3. Maybe you got confused with the names in the audio book? You seem to have combined two different people: Gyldin, the servant who is abused by Liandrin, and Egeanin, the Seanchan spy. We saw two Egeanin points of view, but for Gyldin we’ve only seen her harassed by Liandrin. So far there is no indication that Egeanin knows about Liandrin & Co at all. However, Gyldin the unfortunate servant does serve a purpose other than being bossed around.

    I’m pretty sure the one who ordered Bors to kill Rand was actually Ishamael, who is now dead and unable to put his assets to better use. I know forsaken are unreasonable people, but I like to think that even he would maybe rescind an order like this since Rand is now obviously not anywhere near Almoth Plain any more. Carridin doesn’t know this, but Ishamael certainly would. It could be that Carridin is simply part of a darkfriend network that is now detached from the rest. I don’t know really, just speculating.

    Seanchan society reminds me of imperial China.

    4. “Resemblance” in WoT terms is one of the surest signs of kinship there is :). Lan has no known living kin… but if you’d like you might want to reread the Agelmar passage from Eye where he explains Lan’s story. Oh, and the shadow prophecy from the beginning of Hunt. Just putting that out there.

    5. Yep, this makes Luc a prime suspect. Not much more to say about that.

    As for Perrin, let’s say… the axe, yeah. I worry that Faile could turn out more of a liability at times, and Perrin seems more the melee brute than the rest of the Two Rivers folk.

    6. If everyone followed the way, it would be for everyone. But that’s an unstable equilibrium, so pretty much academic.

    Faile: Well, we knew there was something there, but maybe not quite of this magnitude. Cousin to the Queen of Saldaea. In fact, the Queen being childless and unmarried, and her older siblings dead, and her father’s older siblings also dead, she is second in line to inherit. (Saldaea has equal primogeniture succession.) Perrin might become a King… not just of wolves.

    7. Well, the two prime suspects at the moment are Luc and Fain. Considering Luc has been spotted flying around the Two Rivers just about any time of the day, one might be led to suspect Fain. On the other hand, if Luc really is in command of the trollocs, and if Fain really is the “renegade” he talked about (seems likely), then Fain is not in league with the trollocs either. Hmm…


    I like the small hints dropped about what’s going on between Gaul and the two Maidens.

    Min… yes, well. You might get your fill on that storyline next weekend. *cough*

    The thing about Elayne’s letters was this. She wrote him a super sweet farewell letter, but then Rand said something to the effect that he was happy she was leaving (because staying around him is dangerous), so, disappointed, she wrote him a new letter in rather stronger language. In order to maximise romantic tension they are now obliged not to speak to another about this for the next six books or so. πŸ˜€

    WoT fan ISAM wrote some satirical book summaries of the prequel through book 10 once, and they’re hilarious. I’ve been wanting to post them but they’re always a bit too spoilery for the sections being discussed. Anyway, here’s the relevant passage:

    Elayne: Here is a note expressing my love.
    Rand: You know that being near me is dangerous.
    Elayne: In that case, here is a note expressing my hate. Men are so confusing.

    1. You and I have VERY similar replies on some of the questions this week. What can we say? Great…WoT fans think alike, right? I remember when I first realized how close Perrin might be to the Saldaean throne, it just made me love the books more. All our kids are being maneuvered into such awesome political positions. There’s Rand (duh!) and Elayne who is overtly the heir. But now we have Nynaeve who’s in love with the king of Malkier (uncrowned, sure but if Rand manages to kick the DO’s butt in the last battle, chances are good Malkier will see the light of day–or at least un-Blight-edness–again) and Perrin who, if he ever gets around to marrying Faile, may have a legitimate claim. We won’t hear about Mat and Egwene’s future fates for another few books (other than in T’A’R riddles) but then I don’t have to tell you what they are. This is what’s so great about high fantasy! πŸ˜€ I’ll have to check out those satires by Isam. They sound entertaining!

    2. I thought Egeanin and Liandrin were the same, mostly because Liandrin tells Bors he is a dog and never to use her real name – hence the super secret spy name Egeanin. But, as you say, I am listening to the book and could easily be missing out on some of these smaller points.

      The litany against fear from Dune is a great passage to be translated into Manetheren.

      King Perrin – I like the sound of that. I wonder if Faile would agree?

      Haha! thanks for that tidbit on Elayne’s letters. That so sounds like her and totally explains Rand’s confusion and why the other ladies are ticked at him. I can’t believe this goes on unexplained for like 6 books? I am going to look back on this moment in our read along and laugh.

      I hope Gaul doesn’t gain any permanent injuries from playing Maiden’s Kiss.

      1. Well, not unexplained as such, but it’ll take a long time until many of our heroes meet again. I just threw 6 out there but it wouldn’t surprise me if it was around that many. In fact, you’ll never again see the whole main cast gathered in one place, like at the beginning of this book (well, except for Min)!

    3. 2. Ah, yes, “Fear is the mind killer . . . ” I suddenly feel the need to reread Dune or at least watch the film . . .

      3. That would explain why I struggled to understand this question: I just assumed that I was having a ‘senior’ moment! πŸ˜€

      It seems to me that Gyldin is spying for someone, even if it the merchant who owns the house, but I am beginning to get a little wary about any character that is given more than a few lines of mention. Mr Jordan is so sneaky that she could be anybody, including the Panarch-elect.

      The Seanchan seem very Chinese to me as well.

      4. Off to re-read the shadow prophecy . . . but you will be pleased to learn that I have given up on the idea of coincidence or simple resemblance in this series. Everything is significant!

      5. Perrin goes get a little Hulk-like when he gets mad, doesn’t he? “Perrin smash!!!!” πŸ˜€

      6. It seems to me that the Traveling People and the Aiel are too extremes on the possible range of passive / aggressive behavior and so neither is actually a particularly sensible way to live.

      7. I’m fairly certain that Fain is doing his own thing now, but that also makes me wonder why the person behind the Trollocs hasn’t just overwhelmed him with a massive army. It seems that their intention is not as simple as just killing someone – they are trying to provoke a reaction with the random attacks.

      I love that summary of the Rand / Elayne situation, which is leaving Rand feeling totally confused. Of course, Aviendha and Egwene’s assertions that Elayne meant every word is even funnier because it just adds to his confusion: poor bloke! πŸ˜€

  2. Totally love the Old Tongue phrase! Yeah, we gotta hear that one! I think you make an excellent point about Tinker dogs. That never occurred to me. (Probably because I don’t have dogs and haven’t since I was a kid, so I don’t know much about their eating habits. :D) As for Elayne’s letters, we don’t ever get to read them (that I remember) but this is something that always made me laugh. We know that the first letter she wrote was all mushy romance and sweet nothings. Then, she was afraid she’d been too soft about everything and wanted him to know who wore the pants in the relationship, so she wrote a second letter that, almost point by point, contradicted the first. Then she told someone–Loial? or Gaul? Can’t remember–to tell Rand that she meant everything she’d said in BOTH letters. Makes all kinds of sense! Unfortunately, women DO do this to men sometimes, and I always feel bad for the guy. Poor Rand. Oh, great video too. No hot-blooded, axe-weilding, Randland guy could resist that! πŸ˜€

    1. I know Egwene was told by Elayne in T’A’R that she meant every word. So Egwene is under the assumption that Rand is simply being bull-headed and a jerk.

      A friend of mine at work was talking about women when they reach menopause and how men can’t do anything right during those several months to few years – no matter how contradictory the woman is. I said I would write myself a note – Susan, you need to chill, you’re being a bitch, I love you, kiss kiss – Myself – and laminate it. I would give it to my man for him to whip it out periodically, or daily, during menopause (which is some years off for me). So, that night I get home and it has been a long horrid day at work and I pulled a contradictory witchiness on him – not intentionally. But I caught myself, explained this story, and asked if he would like that laminated card sooner rather than later. Hehe. Giggling and kisses followed.

  3. 2. I think Isendre would eat Mat alive . . . and not in a ‘good’ way! πŸ˜€

    3. Liandrin as a dominatrix . . . that is an image I would like to burn out of my brain . . .

    4. I doubt that Thom is her real father because I seriously doubt that he would have abandoned her so easily if she was. We saw how strongly he felt about his nephew, so a daughter would hold him even more strongly.

    6. Good point about the Tinkers’ dogs – perhaps they let the animals catch their own food? I am also expecting the in-laws to turn up any time now to demand to know what Perrin’s intentions are for their daughter. πŸ™‚

    7. Having seen your taste in sexy videos I think you definitely need to:
    a) have a cold shower
    b) get your eyes checked
    c) buy a copy of Magic Mike to keep you entertained
    LOL πŸ˜€

    1. Ah yes, I don’t think Idendre is a helpless woman, or even one that is simply looking for a good time in the sack.

      I’m on the fence about Thom and his relationship to Elayne. If he is her real father and had to leave her all those years ago, and he regretted it – that could explain his strong protectiveness towards his nephew years later. If he is not her father, but was just around entertaining her mother, then he might have grown a little attached to her and that explains his tender side towards her.

      I was at work yesterday and googled Magic Mike. Luckily, I clicked on the IMBD link instead of any of the numerous videos that popped up. Haha! That would have been interesting to explain to my male officemate. Too bad Netflix does not offer Magic Mike streaming. I will have to track down a copy of this video *waggles eyebrows*.

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